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From Burnout to Balance: The Steps to Sustainable Healing with Michelle Guevara

Experience the transformative journey of healing from burnout in this episode of BOSS™ Talk with La'Vista Jones and special guest Michelle Guevara. Dive deep into the topic of burnout and uncover the personal experiences and insights that Michelle shares as she navigates the continuous process of healing. From recognizing toxic thoughts and tendencies to facing personal challenges head-on, Michelle's story will inspire and empower individuals who are seeking sustainable healing and preventative measures against future burnout. Join this conversation to gain valuable self-care strategies, the power of seeking help and support, and the understanding that healing is a constant journey. Don't miss out on this insightful episode that sheds light on finding inner peace and well-being. Watch now to embark on your own healing process!

Go to Show Notes here.

Here is the transcript:


Welcome to another episode of BOSS™ Talk. I am your host, La'Vista Jones, and today I am joined by my guest, Michelle Guevara, affectionately known as my Michelle. So, you know, Michelle, this is her first time being on the show. But Michelle holds a very dear place in my heart because Michelle is the very first team member that I ever hired. And in doing so, it scared the absolute shit out of me because it was like, now I am responsible for not only myself and the operations of the business, but also simulating a totally separate person's economy.        


But we have been rocking together for some years now. Michelle, how long have we been working together? So we started talking in November of 2019. Yeah. So it's been a minute.        


We've gone through a whole pandemic together, like, oh, my gosh. But let me tell you a little bit more about my Michelle. So when Michelle isn't holding the pieces of my life together, she works as a program manager with the University of Arizona's Department of Surgery. Outside of her weekday eight to five, she uses her time, talent and tenacity to serve the University of Florida Jacksonville's surgery administration. Several female entrepreneurs in the Valley, including and, a faith based nonprofit organization.        


Michelle lives by NOAH, an acronym for “No One Walks Alone” in her professional and personal life. She aspires to come alongside and walk someone through a process life event or just show up when everyone else has bowed out. Her aim is to create an environment where a person feels safe to move from being reactive to creative. And I can tell you from personal experience that she lives this out every single day. Anyone who has ever worked with Michelle will inevitably hear her phrase, no worries.        


This is her way of conveying, I see you. I understand that this is creating an unpleasant moment for you, and I am going to walk this with you until we reach a resolution together. When Michelle is not behind a laptop, you can find her enjoying activities like walking, hot yoga, which she is trying to get me to do, and I'm just oooooh Michelle, paddleboarding, journaling, reading or creating memories with her three loves and others. Michelle, officially, welcome to the show. Thank you.        


I'm so excited to have you here. So, with that, are you ready to share how you are walking out your BOSS™ Talk? Absolutely. All right, let's get into it. So here on the show, we talk a lot about burnout.        


So let's dive right on in, and I want you to take us back to a season in your life that was very close to burnout, if burnout wasn't actually the thing that you were going through so much so that it caused you temporarily to step away from work, to really need to focus on yourself. Take us back to that season in your life, if you will. Absolutely. So it happened in 2020 twice.        


So what happened was in January 2020, I recognized that there were some toxic thoughts, tendencies, traits, and traditions I needed to shed and multiple shame spirals I needed to kick down. So I tried to find some different ways to do this, and my meager ways all fell short. So in February, I sent a text to an accountability partner of mine. She is somebody who is near and dear to my heart. And so I'm just going to read to you what I sent to her because it may resonate with someone else, but “I'm really afraid of silence.        


Like legit, I can't sit quietly for any stretch of time because the thoughts don't stop and it's overwhelming. It makes me this brilliant leader because I can spit out initiatives or activities that drip with creativity, but inside, I'm not well. And only another believer would understand what I'm saying. By the world standards, I should be slaying it, but spiritually, the busyness is depleting me. I've been struggling with this for a while, and I'm in tears typing you this because I can finally articulate it.        


It's like my phone has been this crutch to keep my mind going where I can avoid the silence. And my busyness has been this idol where I've been cheered by many to keep going, but I've slowly died, spiritually. I just need someone to hold me accountable as much as it freaks me out and my pride rears its ugly head like, delete it before others see what a facade you are, I'm not going to regret sharing this with you. Having a hard time with these distractions and other things crowding God out in my life, I chose to do this, and it's like, I want to have this incredible impact, and I just can't. There's this analogy from a Brene Brown book rattling in my head about Star Wars.        


It's where Yoda is trying to teach Luke how the dark side of the Force, the anger, the fear and aggression are holding Luke back. There's this cave, and it doesn't feel right. It feels like cold or death. So Yoda tells Luke, you got to go in. And when Luke asks what's in the cave, Yoda responds, only what you take with you.        


And so basically, I'm facing this cave, and instead of entering, I'm doing everything to stay away because it literally scares me to my core. The cave is where it feels like God wants to take my anger, my resentment, my fear, my aggression. Basically everything that I thought I dealt with over the years, but keep shame spiraling over. And if I'm honest, I faced this before and went in willingly. But now I just can't stomach that I've been here before and I'm back again.        


Like, really again, Michelle. And it's the again that hurts to admit.” And so in February 2020, shared this with her. She definitely leaned in and held me accountable. We went through a lot of different changes.        


A lot of really hard life moments. And I thought, okay, I'm making traction. I'm making some really good shifts in life. And then something hit again in August of 2020, and this one, La'Vista, was actually with me for it because it shifted our working relationship. So at the end of August, my uncle, who is very dear to me and somebody who was just so intimately involved in my life, he took his life.        


And I was one of the final people that he had spoken with. And in that conversation, I had tried to get him some resources because I could hear certain things. And if NOAH is my life pursuit, I was trying really hard to get him to see things a little differently. And so when I got the call that he took his life, that shattered so many pieces of just what I thought I was doing and my well being. So I did have to take a step back.        


And La'Vista, along with some other folks, were clients that I had to just pull back from and just really try to heal. It just it felt like that part where I say, where you're at that cave, and it's like, again, I have to do this, you're going to have to do that many times in life, especially when it comes to walking out your purpose, but also trying to fight off overwhelm and burnout that comes out. And it's funny because burnout is like this dreaded seven letter word, right?        


When you think of other seven letter words that can describe burnout, it's complex, it's painful. There's, like, outrage that comes when you're in the season of burnout. There's disgust because of just how your life is unraveling. It's hurtful. And in some cases, the burnout is extreme or it can create a hostile environment.        


And so when you think about those seven letter words, it's like, I need a remix. I need to find a different way to live out my life. And so it's something that is not a one and done thing. And the reason why I chose the seven letter words to kind of call out what burnout is, because they're seven days a week, you're going to have to walk this out literally every single day, season is going to be different.        


What worked in a period before probably isn't going to work again. And there's a couple of different reasons for that, you know. Lovely hormones sometimes kick in, and you have no control over that one. Listen, hormones and what they do to your body is like a totally different show because, yeah, I am a woman of a certain age now where in my bathroom, I have to have a fan on at all times. If I'm doing my hair or makeup or whatever, or I will come out of there looking like a wet cat.        


It's bad. Like, hormones are the devil. They just are. Yes. Or even just busyness.        


Just so my three loves it's my husband and my son and daughter. And so there were seasons, you know, when La’Vista was reading my bio, there were seasons that there was no way I was going to be able to work with all those different groups because I was busy driving my daughter to soccer or my son to cross country meets. It's just there's different seasons. And so you have to adjust and continue to adjust. And so this happened again.        


So we had that moment in August 2020, September, where in the fall, I just had to have some conversations with La’Vista and others of just saying, I'm not okay right now. And I really wasn't. Like, losing him was so hard, and it just felt like, you know, NOAH pursuit was just such a joke. And I had to really just kind of go in with God and just really try to heal and figure out what it was that I needed. And it has been just rebuilding over the years.        


And even this summer, last year when La'Vista’s book first came out, we celebrated it, read it. It was amazing. And I found at the beginning of the summer, I needed to reread it again and found different ways to use the tangible tools that she gave in the book. Yeah, that's a great example. You talk about, you know, it's the again, that's hard to admit, right?        


There are some things that they're, like, cyclical, right. As far as they kind of keep coming back to us, right. So we can learn the lessons from them. With that. I love to know, you talked about, I think, what is the catalyst, really, that kind of caused you to need to shift your focus into your self care.        


So it's more two part. Tell us really what that focus consisted of. What did you do to be able to get back to yourself, to reconnect to yourself, to put back the pieces that you said earlier that shattered, especially when you got news from your uncle. And I'll let you answer that, and then I'll come back with the second part of my question for that. Sure.        


So I am a type A personality, unfortunately. You don't say.        


How two Type A's work together so amazingly. I don't know. I think that you have a special anointing that is on you in your life. To be a Type A personality yourself and to have a client such as me that also is very Type A.        


It's all God. We can say, no, you guys will laugh at this because I realized that I needed counseling just to deal with all the grief and just all the fragmented pieces. Like, basically I was sitting with pieces in front of me and didn't know what to do. And your first tendency is to, like, everyone, look away, don't see this mess. You want to put it together quickly, and that doesn't work.        


So I actually contacted a counselor, and my first session with him was, look I am paying for you for ten sessions. Like, I'm giving you ten sessions of my time and my money and here's what I would need it to look like. So there are things that are crippling me in my walk and I'm just going to break it down for you because it is the acronym for CRIPPLE. So the C was Control, R was Rejection. I was Insecurities.        


P was people pleasing, it was (L) letting shit go and it was (E) expectations. So I was like, okay, great, there are these things. So we will have our introductory session. We will work through those seven and then we'll have two free sessions, however we need to wrap this up. And oh yeah, since you are a faith based counselor, we will let the Holy Spirit move however we need to.        


But here's the structure. And he laughed and was like, yeah, you're a little type A, right? Just a little, but we just need to have intention with this. I want to heal from this, right? So there was good humor, but it was really just trying to figure out what worked and what didn't work.        


And every day it was just coming with that genuine sense of I want to heal the right way. And that was something that my sister cousin had really emphasized to me, was, Michelle, you want to heal and heal the right way with this season and just whatever it takes, just lean into it. And so it was, it was a lot of different things of just trying know, finding what path meaning like how many miles do I need to walk to shed this stress that I'm feeling? Or like you get some tension in you where you just have to work it out, what does that look like? And so it was trying to find those different things of what worked well for me.        


And so for me personally, what I found kind of helped my weeks was on Sundays to start at church because it was great to have worship and just be in God's house and just kind of hearing a message spoken over you. I did join a recovery program called Celebrate Recovery because I was an angry girl and needed to deal with things. And so being able to do that with them, they had an amazing step program similar to any other recovery program that you would go through, where you basically go raw with yourself, of just stripping yourself down, of what are the flaws and the fears and the tendencies. Everything that I've been doing to cope in my life and how can I break those apart and really be a more healthy and free individual? So there's that.        


There was just doing things activity wise, making sure work was balanced and that I would be able to yes, you have your regular job where you have to do things and pay the bills, but then you also have opportunities that bring life to you. And that's what these other opportunities, like working with La'Vista and a couple of others do, is it allows me to be creative. It allows me to partner with somebody and really nurture others and take the gifts that I have and help in their business. So all those things of just working through what works well in my week, what my week absolutely has to have that would make me feel good, help me process stress, help me be creative, and just have times where I can write something or I'm a big journal or reader, and so I like to be able to pass along those things. And so it's just finding what works well for you and what aligns with your gift set.        


And also what Libis just said in the book of like, what's your love language? How are you going to love on yourself and teaching others how to love? On you as well? I loved everything that you said, but one of the things that really stood out to me was during that season right. That you really focused on having things in your week that made you feel good.        


Oh, yeah, because that is so important. Right. And I think that that ties to that simplistic definition of self care that I adhere to. Right? That it's those simple things day after day, like, they don't have to be expensive, they don't have to be extravagant.        


They just have to be done on purpose and consistently so that you are constantly pouring into yourself and making sure that you are just okay, because you just need to be okay. Because I think that's the other part. Right. I think that a lot of self care focus is like, okay, do this for yourself so that you can take care of others or do this for yourself so you can do this for others or show up this way. And that's a byproduct right of feeling good is okay.        


Yeah, I can show up as a better mother or show up as a better wife, or show up as a better business owner or whatever the case may be. But self care at its core truly is selfish because it is the care of yourself and it's making sure that you are okay. So I really do love that, that you made sure that you had things every week that made you feel good. Right. And so there was another component, which was a crash kit.        


So most people in healthcare know that when a patient is coding in the emergency room or ICU, the team brings in what we call a crash kit to where it has everything that's needed to revive that patient. So I basically needed to create my own crash kit to revive me when things were just tanking and I was starting to go back into old habits. And so my crash kit consisted of certain things that I'd saved along the way of maybe it was a playlist. Like, I literally created a playlist on my streaming called, Thinking Deep because it was songs that I don't normally hear on the radio. It was just things that I could just play that would just help kind of me not like sometimes we mindlessly numb, right, with Netflix or with whatever.        


So this was just a little bit more intentional to just kind of get me focused in again. I would do it when I would go walking because it just helped bring things back into perspective for me. There were messages that I had some friends kind of send me voice messages of just reminding me of who I am and what I brought to the situation for them or for their lives. And it was good just to hear those messages of this is how much value you have and this know why people really need you and want you in their lives. Because it got dark for a while.        


La’Vista and so those things of like that crash kit of just having God's word saved somewhere or quotes from places or messages from friends or songs, that's what really helped. So that's genius. Having a crash kit that is there to revive yourself, right? So we often in the self care space kind of talk about it's like your self care toolkit, but hearing it referred to as like a crash kit to revive yourself is just like, wow. It's a totally different point of view to really think about those things that you have in your arsenal to really take care of yourself, especially when you feel yourself slipping away.        


Like, wow, that's like inspiration for me for a Breath Retreat and having women coming together to put their crash kit together. Absolutely. That is so great. Yes. Because how many of us, like, you and I, both are the same way?        


Even though we have friends that are like, call me at 02:00 A.m., I will answer. I'll be there for you. And we've even said it to people because we know that we would do it. But at 02:00 A.m., when shit's hitting hard, we are not calling anybody. We are just sitting there suffering through it.        


And that's when the crash kick comes. For sure. Because that meme that's floating around, right? The one that's like, check on your strong friends. There's truth behind that, like 1000%.        


Because those are the ones that likely aren't going to say anything, right? Exactly. And you said that like, literally in your book. So guys, it's on page 112 if you need to highlight it. “Behind a woman's smile is a hurting heart in a story you may never fully understand. “       


And that's so true. So thank you for writing that. Oh my Michelle, I love you. Well, let me ask you then, what do you feel is the greatest lesson from that shift in your life and on your, you know, hey, focusing on your self care, putting this crash kit together, what do you feel like the greatest lesson is from you doing that? Absolutely.        


So there was probably two things. One, my identity and God just came into full focus because there were so many things that I had put my identity in, and it was all sinking sand. So having that shift in my relationship with God and also just realizing how that whole thing of just doing things in his strength and not in your own strength was key for me because there were times that I was just pushing through before I started the whole journey. In 2020, I was almost 220 pounds. And that was really unhealthy for me because there were times that I was driving my daughter and this was so horrific.        


I had a conversation with her one time because I wouldn't feel right. And so we didn't live in the town that she was practicing in at the time. And so I had to tell her. So in my phone are these three people. If anything happens to me while I'm here because I'm thinking I'm going to probably have a heart attack one of these days, I am still not taking care of myself.        


Call these three people because it's going to be 2 hours before your dad and anyone else can get over here to be with you and figure out what's going on with me health wise, so they will come immediately to be at your side. And I thought, wow, how crappy is that? That I'm telling my daughter that I'm not doing what I need to do to take care of myself, and yet I'm telling her, like, worst case scenario, here's what you need to do. And that was when I kind of realized, I can't keep doing this.        


There were times where I would work and you push through. And so I would wake up early, take the kids to school, get to work, back to back to back meetings. And then it's 02:00 and you're like, crap, I haven't eaten anything all day. So you go to the school bookstore and you're getting a bag of Gardetto, some chocolate, right? And then 08:00 at night or 09:00 at night, you're eating dinner late, and then you're rinsing and repeating.        


And that just wasn't okay. It's not okay. It's not a pace that is sustainable. Like, yours was what gardetto's? Mine was honey roasted peanuts.        


That's what I would eat and sustain myself with all day. Honey roasted peanuts and coffee because there was no time for lunch. Breakfast was probably coffee. Like coffee and like a 5:00 a.m. meeting, that was my breakfast.        


And I would have those peanuts at my desk that I would go to and eat and be like, I feel hungry. And then I'd get home at like 8,9,10 at night and would have this headache and my husband, so what you eat for lunch? And I'm like, that's a joke, right? I didn't eat lunch. I didn't eat lunch.        


I haven't had dinners 10:00 at night. I've literally had coffee and peanuts. Right. Who does that? Yeah, too many of us do that.        


Too many of us do that. Which is why when we hear somebody share that kind of experience, it's one of those we laugh to keep from crying because it resonates. And we can associate with that pain because it's like we've put ourselves through that and we've run ourselves ragged at a pace like that for so long, and it's like, oh, yeah, I remember those days. But that's the whole subtitle of the book, right? Like, do what you love without sacrificing yourself to do it.        


I love that you have been able to get back to a place where you're able to do the work that, you're know, with the universities, you're able to do the work with the entrepreneurial women that you work with. You're able to do the work with the faith based organizations that you do the volunteer work with. But it's no longer at the sacrifice of Michelle. Yeah. And that's the lesson.        


That's the shift that has to be made in order for you to continue going. Right. Because the pace that you were talking about, the pace that I just shared, that's not sustainable. That is a one way ticket to burnout or if not, worse. Yeah.        


And so I want to go back to something that you said earlier again. Right. It's the again, that is hard to admit. And so I think that there's a misconception just kind of in general, around self care, that it's more kind of like a one and done kind of a thing or, hey, here's this thing that I do. I do massages.        


That's my self care. I've checked it off the list. It's done. I've self-cared. Right.        


And so instead of looking at self care as this, like, every evolving process that you walk out every single day, and I bring that up because I had recently received a voice memo from you. You mentioned earlier that you read the book last year when it first came out last October, and you found yourself needing to read it again. Right. Because you're evolving. Life is evolving.        


What you were doing to take care of yourself, those things that you were doing to make you happy, to make you feel good in your week probably are different today than they were a year ago, two years ago, five years ago. And so, with your permission, I would love to play that because I think it perfectly highlights that evolution. Is that okay with you? Absolutely. All right, so here is that voicemail.       


So thank you for letting me share that with the audience, because, again, I think that it perfectly highlights that evolution of needing to go back and evaluate what's on your joy list. What are these things that make you feel good? What does this self care really need to look like for me now in this season of my life. How does my care of myself need to evolve as my life has evolved? And so with that, I want to ask you one last main question, is what advice would you give another entrepreneur that is currently feeling way down, especially by perfectionism?        


Because that's one of the things that you talked about in that voicemail. What advice would you give them? Oh, my goodness, so many things. Okay, let me be honest. I actually almost didn't take this interview La'Vista because we had a conversation, and La'Vista and I do that back and forth with emails because I just wasn't sure.        


And I almost was close to just sending you an email saying, hey, I'm actually not going to go through with it. And I literally got a text from that person who I had sent that text to in 2020. She sent me this text that said, “I was working until about 10:00 p.m. last night. I am wiped out.        


I'm very close to handing in my resignation, burning the candle at both ends. Please keep me in prayer.” And when I saw her text, I was like, Fuck that. I'm doing this interview. Because I could tell if she's the only person that hears this, it would be remix.        


Burnout the words, the letters in burnout. B-U-R-N-O-U-T change it to be “Build Up Resiliency Now. Oppose Unrealistic Tendencies.” And that is something that I would want her to carry and anyone else that's hearing this to carry, because it is hard seven days a week, and sometimes with bosses and everyone else, you are working seven days a week.        


You are constantly going, and so you need to make yourself that priority. And we hear the word selfish, and it's just understanding that you really need to do what works well for you and gives you joy. And it is just finding what works well, because it's not unfortunately, it's not a cookie cutter type thing. What works well for me or for La'Vista may not work well for somebody else, but it's just finding what brings you joy and what you like doing. And I mean, even with the voice message that I gave you La'Vista that you all just heard, that brought me joy.        


One, because I love reading, and two, it brought me joy because you should always for me personally, I always want to tell somebody as soon as they make an impact in my life or something happens, to immediately tell them, because people need to know what they're able to do. And that's what the folks that helped me with my crash kit did for me. That's what I wanted to do for La'Vista to know that the words that she put together. And I got to pray for her in the process of putting this book together. So I knew how much she fought to get these words out into the world.        


And so she needed that. Reminder to know this made a difference. And so I'm glad that you played that. And what I would close with La'Vista, is probably your words, because the part and it's marked in my book, it's highlighted, and I even, I needed this in summer 2023. So what I would part with is just it's on page 47.        


Yes, it worked out beautifully because we've been talking about seven letter words, right? And so on 47, you will find La'Vista's words of “I needed to extend grace to myself as I adjusted to my new normal and to stop beating myself up for falling short at the expectations from the previous season of my life. Neglecting my emotional self care was slowly chipping away at my self worth and was feeding the fierce barrage of negative thoughts.” I think that's what I would tell an entrepreneur or anyone who's struggling with Burnout right now, is you have to recognize that seasons are always going to be different.        


You're always going to have to find a new way to infuse ideas or creativity around your self care and what that looks like. And maybe it is a massage, maybe it isn't. That's okay. My joy moments do come from engaging with other people, but I also find a lot of joy when I'm on the water and just paddleboarding and just listening to the water and the wind. There's just different things.        


So I would just share with folks remix burnout. What does it look like for you to be on the reverse side of that, to do a 180? And so I would say build up resiliency now and oppose unrealistic tendencies. That is so good. Thank you, Michelle.        


And one of the things that you mentioned in that voicemail that we shared right, is the perfectionism exercise that's in the book. And so I'd like to do that with you so that we can model that for the audience. And so I thought about just reading it, but now that I'm thinking about it, I'd like to kind of maybe do it as, like, a call and response. So I'll read it, and then you repeat after me. And then this way, you'll listen to me say it, audience, and you will actually say the words with Michelle as she's doing the call in response to me.        


So this is one of the BOSS™ behavior exercises directly from the book around perfectionism. And so if you're doing this, please take out your cell phone and record yourself saying this. Hey, perfectionism, it's La'Vista. Hey. Perfectionism.        


It's Michelle. And we need to talk. And we need to talk. So I've finally come to this realization. It's not me, it's definitely you.        


So I finally come to this realization. It's not me. It's definitely you. And I'm over you. And I'm over you.        


I'm letting go of who you think I should be. I'm letting go of who you think I should be. And I'm embracing who I am. And I'm embracing who I am. That's it.        


That's the recording. So whenever you need a reminder that perfectionism isn't needed for you to be a transformational impact you are making in the marketplace, make sure that you listen to that recording on your phone. You'll thank me later. So with that, Michelle, thank you so much for being my guest on the show and sharing so openly. And in case anybody is needing a no worries, I see you kind of partner in their lives, like I have the fortune to have in my own.        


Please share with our listeners how they can connect with you. Absolutely. So you can connect with me on LinkedIn or Instagram. That's probably the best places to find me. But LinkedIn, if you're looking for a working opportunity, that would be the best way.        


Can I just do a shameless plug for your journal and book? Go for it. Absolutely. Okay. The book is amazing, but what's really cool about the book is that within it, La'Vista will direct you to when you should go to the journal.        


And I've been at some events where we're selling La'Vista’s materials, and I've had women look at the book and they're looking at the journal and they're going back and forth. And what I would encourage you with is what I tell them. It's great, and it is worth the investment because sometimes you're reading the book and you just need a place to process your thoughts. Like, yes, we all mark up our books and highlight and underline, but the prompts that she has for the journal are so beneficial. And it's not just for BOSS women.        


It's really for anyone. And I think for me, this is my 20th year in healthcare, private practice, academic medicine, and there's things in here that easily anyone in those groups that I work with could utilize. So if you know somebody that could benefit from that that's not necessarily an entrepreneur or solopreneur, it is definitely for them and for the candle. Amazing one. If you ever want to just have a clean scent that's just in your office or in your space, this is the candle to have.        


And Michelle is referring to the work candle that actually goes along with the book itself. And so we'll make sure that the links to the book and the journal and the candle are all in the show notes so that you can go and check those things out. But before I let you go, in true BOSS™ Talk form, I want to know what is your biggest need in the marketplace right now? You never know. Somebody who's listening might be the answer to what you need.        


So what do you need? Oh, that is a great question. So creativity when it comes to project management tools. So exploring. I had a great call with Asana today, and so if you know of anything, know great templates for Asana.        


Great. If you think of there's another one like Michelle, you should actually check out Monday base camp something. Would love to hear your thoughts on what works well, because what we're trying to do is build something that will help my team at the U of. But also, I never think just one. I'm always thinking, who else can we help?        


Right? Like the ripple effect. And so what I've shared with my team is let's build this, but let's build this. So that way, other departments of surgery nationwide, at other academic institutions, want to copy us and do what we do, and we blaze that trail, basically. So anyone that has some good tips, I would love to hear.        


Love that. And again, we'll have the connection to Michelle's LinkedIn so that you can go ahead and connect with her and share all of your insight to project management tools, tips, templates, all those things to help her out so that she can amplify her impact in the marketplace. So for all those that are listening, please download this episode and make sure to check out the show notes at because I know the name of my own show for the tips and resources that were mentioned. I am confident that something about Michelle's story resonated with you and is challenging you to cultivate your own culture of work life balance and prevent burnout. Allow me to leave you with this reminder.        


You can love what you do in the marketplace without sacrificing yourself to do it. So until next time, continue battling overwhelmed with systems and self care and walk out your BOSS™ Talk. Bye.


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